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Re: No Swing in the U.K.? (cross pond point of view)

To: <brass-band@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: No Swing in the U.K.? (cross pond point of view)
From: "Robin McCubbin" <rmccubb@xxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:27:31 -0500
Priority: low
Reply-to: brass-band@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Nicely explained!  I too have a swing band, classical orchestra and brass
band background.  To my ears this is an excellent explanation of the subtle
differences associated with the particular idiom.

----------
> From: Dennis M. Taylor <dtaylor@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: brass-band@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: No Swing in the U.K.? (cross pond point of view)
> Date: Sunday, February 02, 1997 9:55 PM
> 
> I have never heard a British band live and therefore cannot comment upon
> that aspect of the thread.  However, I have played in many American
"swing"
> bands and would like to make a few commentaries.
> 
> (1)  The person who spoke of swing being similar to baroque ornamentation
> in that it wasn't fully notated and players were expected to know what to
> do on their own is a grand comparison.  To illustrate: I had a friend on
> the tour band backing Pia Zadora on her "Pia and Phil" tour.  The
> arrangements were British.  The arranger had attempted to notate just how
> the music was to be performed.  It was rife with double and triple flags
> tied to double and triple notes.  In general, a mess to an American
> musician.  The rehearsals were not going well.  Finally when a phrase
> sounded particularly crunched the conductor exclaimed, "You are supposed
to
> be professional musicians.  Why can't you play
> 'du-ba-da-du-ba-da-dut-dot-dot' (or whatever)?"  Immediately pencils came
> flying out and musicians were pencilling in quarters and eighths (quavers
> and semis?) above the notation.  At that point the conductor went through
> the entire set of charts in such manner, the players wrote the "straight"
> notation above the inked parts, and everything sounded great.
> 
> (2) Complicating this is the fact that swing is not a fixed mutation of
the
> rhythm.  The 12/8 concept is only correct at certain tempi in certain
> situations.  It is even possible for perfectly "straight" notes to
"swing."
> For a simple illustration consider Charlie Parker playing a gazillion
notes
> per bar in a standard bop tune.  Now think of what it would sound like if
> the 12/8 formula were to be strictly applied.
> Many factors influence whether or not music swings.  Rhythm is one.
> Articulation is another of at least equal importance.  The phrasing is
> another.
> Count Basie used to audition lead trumpet players on Lil' Darling (a very
> slow chart).  He took it for granted that they could play high, loud, and
> fast.  What he wanted to hear was where they placed the eighth notes on
> that slow piece (with the correct place being where all of his other
> trumpets placed them, continuity of the band's style and such).
> 
> Can a UK band swing?  Probably, but not if being told things like, "Make
> these notes longer and these notes shorter."
> 
> Stepping down from my soapbox podium and returning to the lurker
caverns....
> 
> Dennis
> 
> Dennis M. Taylor
> Shepherdstown, WV
> dtaylor@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> 
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