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Re: brass band instrumentation

On Sat, 8 Feb 1997 janice03@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

> Just a few thoughts....from the Woods Mfg BB
> 
> Now that we from the Woods BB have obviously opened up a can of worms regarding 
> the use of various instruments in the brass band, it's time for us to reply....
> 
> Thank you very much to all of you who have tributed to this discussion, 
> especially those positive minded people in Australia and Ireland.
> 
> Should we start the discussion with what instruments to use in the brass band 
> from the top down or the bottom up??? and should we also include percussion in 
> this discussion???
> 
> Starting (for our australian friends with a glass of beer in hand) bottom's 
> up....
> 
> Bb bass - or BBb bass? or tuba and not bass....should this instrument be 3 or 4 

For a start, Bb bass is at euph pitch.  The change happened in the 19th 
centuary (Bb used to be above Eb in the score)

> valved, compensating or not? should the 4th valve be operated with the left 

Do you want to play in tune or not?!!  You need 4 valves for a lot of 
modern music.

> index fingure or the small fingure of the right hand? should rotary valves be 

Personal choice.  But::  name a compensating horn eith 4 inline valves 
(other than the new Besson front action basses)

> permitted? should the C Tuba allowed and should a C tuba player be permitted to 

using '''orchestral''' pitch tubas may present intonation problems: if Bb 
and Eb are out of tune, they are likely to be out of tune together.

> play a Bb bass..or BBb bass? and should these instruments be right or left 

Que??  see above.

> shoulder? If different facing bells are permitted does this alter the 
> traditional seating of a traditional brass band?

Play what you like, as long as it blends.  If the tuba bells crash into 
each other, move further apart.  Simple.

> Ditto for the Eb or EEb bass or tuba and not bass.... F tuba or bass allowed?

EEb bass is simply a large bore Eb, it doesn't even presume 4 valves.

> Euphonium - or Baritone for some of our american friend (as terms are 
> interchangeable) should this instrument be 3 or 4 valved, compensating or not? 

Complete twaddle, in a brass band they should sound different.  Again, 
play a horn that is in tune.  Euph parts these days now presume 4 valves, 
baritones don't.

> should the 4th valve be operated with the left index fingure or the small 

Deja vu.

> fingure of the right hand? Forward facing bell or not? double bell?

The euph blends with horn/bass tone => bell = up.

> 
> Bass trombone or G Trombone w/ handle!!! Should the modern bass trombone be 
> permitted or not in single or double rotor form? We would suggest for a 
> "traditional" brass band only G trombones be allowed!!!! This would exclude most 
> bands from ever having a bass trombone players and set our industry back a very 
> long way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd be quite interested on playing pre-70s pieces on a G bass.  Ack Ack 
ACK.  However, You need 2 plugs to play anything else these days.

> 
> next...
> 
> Straight Tenor trombone or w/F attachment which one should be allowed??? If the 

It is now assumed that the 2nd has a plug, but the 1st may not.

> latter is acceptable should conditions be applied that it can not be use 
> (F/attachment) during a performance in competition or a traditional work!!! It's 
> use would automatically disqualify that band (any level)!!! this would be 
> closely policed - should the trombone player in a traditional brass band be 
> limited to the use of a "traditional" small bore trombone (bore sized measured 
> before competition)
> 
> Baritone - should this one be right or left or forward facing bell? should this 

Blend with the horns.

> instrument be 3 or 4 valved, compensating or not? should the 4th valve be 

Yawn

> operated with the left index fingure or the small fingure of the right hand? 
> larger or small bore? does the american baritone qualify as a baritone or 

Is there an 'American Baritone'?

> euphonium? again depending on which way the bell faces....seating?
> 
> Eb tenor or Eb alto or barking iron or peck horn....or Eb tenor cor(like a 
> french fingured with right hand)....need we say more? In a traditional brass 
> band could a Eb tenor be played with a French horn mouth peice with adapter if 

Don't like the idea of an adaptor.  French horn mouthpieces are designed 
for playing on a set of partials effectiveley an octave different from a 
dog-horn

> not why is there such a thing as the adapter? French horns are handicaped due to 
> the following: must use left hand (great if you're are a southpaw) must stuff 
> the other hand up the bell, transpose, a must presumably turn pages with their 

Transposing is a major trauma for most french horn players.

> feet.
> 
> We are fortune (I suppose) to have french horn players who can play the likes of 
> Carnival of Venise, the Arrival of the Queen of Sheba, and the list goes 
> on...our french horn player have yet to hear an Eb horn player play the Strauss 
> Horn concerto. Maybe more of you should hear Barry Tuckwell play the french 

Because they are written for diffenernt instruments.  My point (and the 
other people who have replied's) is that French horn sound wrong on tenor 
horn parts, you're just saying this the other way round.

> horn.
> 
> Flugel Horn or alto flugal horn? should this be 3 or 4 valved? do bands that 

4v?  Why?  It's not needed, and the triggers should take care of any 
intonation problems.

> have alto horns need a alto flugal horn?...

YES, the Flugel is the natrual treble of 'horn tone'  There is enough 
trouble gettin decent high range out of the 'heart of the band' without 
discarding the Flug

> Bb Cornets...should a common consenses on bore size be reach and should a C cup 
> mouth piece be allowed? Perhap the tradition small cornet only be allowed and 
> this combined with the right mouth piece - would produce(at times) a brighter 
> sound than the trumpet. Should a trumpet player indeed be even allowed to play a 
> cornet? should players of this instrument not form their own Guild??

What about cornet players who play the trumpet to earn a living?

> Eb cornet or Eb soprano cornet - should the players of this instrument strive to 
> produce the "traditional" sound or try to mimic the Eb trumpet (listen to many 
> modern (recordings)? Where should they sit in the band?

i) Learn to play the instrument so you can play however you need to play.  A 
half decent player should be able to nail stuff in modern music and also 
play exquisit 4 foot stops in the traditional repertoire.

ii) the sop works with the rep, so they should sit together.

> Percussion - traditional bands used to only have snare drum and bass drum with a 
> cymbal on top. Let's leave this one to the percussionist!

Did they?  When does raditional start?  Read the bit in the Wright abou 
the percussion in 'large concert bands'

> 
> Of course this discussion can go on indefinetly - that's not our point here. As 
> Canadians, our population of about 30 million is spread out over one of the 
> largest geographical areas, and therefore we have to adapt. We would love to 
> have a traditional brass band set up but refuse to be limited by one. Our idea 
> in starting our band was to enable brass player to broad their horizons and 
> musically challenge them!!! Is this not one of the "tradition goals" set up by 

No, we go and play with no thought whatsoever of improving ourselves.

> the common man Brass Band!
> 
> Guthrie Woods (our "traditional" sponsor) wishes you all well and good luck in 
> any brass band competition you enter regardless of your instrumentation.
> 
> A conglomoration of thoughts by the Woods Mfg.Co.(Ottawa) Ltd. Brass Band
> 

I take it some of your posting was in jest, and apologise for the overly 
sarcastic nature of some of my remarks.

-- 
  Alastair Wheeler
  Euphonium, Bass Trombone
  Alastair.Wheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxx   http://users.ox.ac.uk/~newc0349/
  "I am following my fish"


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