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Re: No Swing in the U.K.?

I wrote:
>>To discover swing, you really have to *listen* to swing music.
>>Recorded, or preferably live. There is no other way.

Graham Hastings wrote:
>I kind of disagree.  I've been listening to swing all my life (well
>nearly:-)  But if something comes up on a gig with swing I sit back
>and do what I'm told by the guys who play it all the time.  To swing
>well you have to play it, preferably starting young, and do it all the
>time.  (IMHO)

What I meant was, no amount of analytical description will give you a 
true picture of swing music.  If you don't know what it is, go and 
listen to a representative selection of swing music for a few hours. 
That's the first step; if you don't, there's no real hope of ever playing 
it properly.   

If you can find a place where you can play with guys who play it all the 
time, then yes, that's the best way to learn to play it.

Paul Taylor wrote:
>Does anyone seriously tie quavers to the start of melody notes to
>approximate swing? No wonder so many bands don't swing. 

Yes.  There's many a naff piano or brass band arrangement (especially for 
beginners) that does just that.  That's often the sort of thing that is 
remembered by classical musicians.  

Paul Taylor wrote:
>Of course beats are
>anticipated (and delayed) in jazz interpretations, but this can only be
>done musically by players who can really feel the music, i.e. people
>experienced in playing jazz. In written jazz arrangements, offbeat or
>syncopated notes may be part and parcel of the intended melodic line, just
>as notes written on the beat must be played exactly where they are.

Yes, there's syncopated accents as well.  That would have been my rule three. 
And often a main beat in a bar is unplayed by everyone including the rhythm 
section. Once you have a strong rhythmic background chugging away, you can 
emphasise a beat (ie draw attention to it) by *not* playing it.  Reminds me 
a bit of the use of shaped holes in modern sculpture.  

I wrote:
>>For the other rules, you'd be better asking somebody else. Hey, 
>>I'm only a percussionist :)  To give you a flavour of them, you 
>>know the open note that comes after G, that isn't quite B-flat 
>>and you're not supposed to play it? That's one of the notes of 
>>the jazz/blues scale. 

Paul Taylor wrote:
>This note: what on earth is it? Can you explain what this is supposed to mean?

Er, yeah, sorry, not a brilliant way of putting it... :{

In the lower register of a brass instrument, the open notes are separated by 
a third.  If you play a sequence of open notes (written) C E G, then the next
 open note is an out-of-tune B flat.  I used it as an easily accessible 
example of a naturally occurring note that 'falls between the cracks' of piano 
keyboard notes. This note is 'badly out of tune' by keyboard standards, and 
you'd never use it in a normal brass band piece. 

Many brass banders have little or no formal classical music theory training.  
However, everyone's picked up the idea of scales, sharps and flats and the notes 
on the written music staff or piano keyboard.  Going beyond that, by no means 
everyone is aware of musical scales that use notes that are 'between the cracks' 
of the keyboard. For example, even in classical music F sharp and G flat are not 
necessarily played at exactly the same pitch.  

On some instruments, like trombone or violin, you can select a note from a 
continuous spectrum of pitch.  If you want to play a note just sharp of a piano 
F sharp, you can.  If you play a valved instrument you have more of a problem, but 
I know it can be done - just don't ask me how. On a piano, you're stuck with what 
the piano-tuner did.  It's common to approximate by playing the two notes on 
either side of the desired note, and hope it sounds OK.   

Swing, jazz and blues use many notes that are not exactly as found on the piano 
keyboard, and which contribute to its characteristic sound.  The most famous of 
these is the 'blue note', but there are many others.    

This kind of thing is well known to players with more advanced classical training, 
but not necessarily to those who only have a good basic training in the 
fundamentals.  For example, in the UK, I don't think that anyone passing the 
'Grade 5 Theory' exam would need to know this.

I know classical musicians and brass banders who dismiss jazz and swing with 
'can't keep in time, can't play in tune'.  I hope I've shown that the variation of 
time and pitch from the standard 'straight' style is certainly not incompetence or 
sloppiness.  On the contrary it requires a knowledge of one's instrument and a 
sense of rhythm and ensemble that is at least equal to that of classical musicians.

Anyway, at least I was right when I said you'd be better asking somebody else :-)

Tom Sheridan
Percussionist, Failsworth band
Manchester UK


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