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Re: Computer rankings

Glenn, I think you are taking the rankings a little to seriously. When
Waratah competed in our first A grade nationals in 1994 we were very well
placed third and if you Victorians had counted the Hymn, second. After ou=
r
state victory that year  and tieing for first with Hawthorn the next
nationals we were the subject of all sorts of rubbish talk about help fro=
m
overseas conductors and the like,I recalled a comment by a well known
Welshman now living in Scotland to" let your Band do the talking". Also
another comment made at the time by Cobber Burnett "class like cream alwa=
ys
rises to the top" . How true.  Keep up the good work Kew.

Ron Grice
Waratah Mayfield.

P.S. To Ima Gemendo ,I left off the title didn't want to offend you ,also
should we all say poor Hawthorn for your quote "misfortune" I don't think
so.

----------
From: Glenn McGowan <mcgowan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: brass-band@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Computer rankings
Date: 19 May 1998 08:43

COMPUTER RANKING FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED


The =93computer ranking=94 system regularly published in Australia=92s Ba=
nd World
seems
fundamentally flawed in that it does not, on any view, reflect how well
bands are
playing comparatively to each other at any time.  At best it might rank
them
reasonably well within a state.  The reason for this is the method of
calculation
that forms the basis of the ranking system.  One accrues more points the
more top
bands one contests against.  The problem is that bands in New South Wales=
,
and
particularly Willoughby, will continue to be on the top of the scale
because more
top bands compete in New South Wales than anywhere else.  This is perhaps
understandable because New South Wales is the most populous State. 
Willoughby will
continue to be on the top of the ladder so long as it continues to domina=
te
New
South Wales competition.  In contrast, Kew, which has won every competiti=
on
it has
competed in for the last twelve months, is ranked 4th.  (Kew has entered
four
contests in the last twelve months, which is enough for any band in a yea=
r.
 In
England the top bands usually compete in about four contests a year =96 t=
he
Nationals, the Open, All England Masters and Spennymoor, and if they are
lucky a
fifth, namely the Europeans.  Of course some may also have to compete in
the Grand
Shield or the Regional Qualifiers.)  But in Victoria there are far fewer
bands to
compete against, in A-Grade particularly.  Therefore, despite beating all
comers
and beating all New South Wales bands who went to the Nationals, Kew
remains ranked
4th.

The ranking system for bands in Australia is artificial and completely
inaccurate
because amateur banding in Australia is nothing like, say professional
sport.  With
professional golfers or tennis players, those players tour the world full
time
competing in every competition they can to earn maximum prize money and
maximise
their rankings.  Amateur bands in Australia cannot do this.  Our banding
arrangements are also quite different from England in that each of the
major
contests named above attract roughly equal numbers of top bands.  That is=
,
every
time such a contest is held, many bands from the top 20 are almost
guaranteed to be
there.  At State contents in Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania, Western
Australia
and Queensland, it can be the case that no bands in the top 15 will be
present and
more often only two or three bands in the top 15 will be present.  In New
South
Wales the number can be six or seven.   During the hey day of Hawthorn=92=
s
dominance
when they were winning multiple nationals hat tricks, they would not have
been
ranked first.

Another graphic way to illustrate this is to consider it in relation to
soloists.
If the same ranking system were applied to brass soloists in Australia th=
en
the
person at the top of the ladder, ahead of players such as Christina Bowde=
n,
John
Saunders, Michelle Stewart and any of the other top players one cares to
name,
would be Kew tuba player Albie Stewart =96 and by a considerable margin.
 The
reason
for this is that Albie has the time and means to tour Australia regularly
competing
in almost every solo contest which is available.  Few people can do this.=
 
I know
Albie personally very well and I know that he would be the first to admit
that he
is not the top brass soloist in Australia.  Yet, on the same basis as the
band
rankings, he would undoubtedly be at the very top, and by a very great
margin.

No doubt people will criticise this article by saying that I have not
suggested a
better ranking system.  One might dabble with weighting certain contests,
like the
nationals.  But then one gets into rather more subjective problems of how
to
weight.  That is, I don=92t think a good ranking system can be created fo=
r
amateur
Australian bands.  I could give an indication of my view of where the ban=
ds
should
be ranked but next week it would be different.  And everyone would have a
different
view.

The conclusion I draw is that the ranking system is completely useless in
indicating the comparative strengths of bands at any one time and I propo=
se
in the
future to completely ignore the rankings.  Most people in England ignore
the
English rankings and they have a better basis for being accurate than the
Australian rankings do.  The tyranny of distance does not operate to the
same
extent in England as it does in Australia.

Perhaps the only conclusion therefore which can be drawn is that a band i=
s
only as
good as its last performance.

GLENN MCGOWAN


Peter Younghusband wrote:

> Are the rankings not based over three years like England Glenn? What di=
d
Kew do
> during the other two years if so?
>
> Monkey
>
> Glenn McGowan wrote:
>
> > Kew Band (Australia) has won the Bendigo A grade competition by 13
> > points, pushing Hawthorn into second place.  This means Kew has won
> > every competition it has competed in for the last 12 months (4
> > contests).  Yet it is only ranked in the band 'computer' rankings as
> > 4th.  This nothwithstanding a convincing win at the nationals. 
Computer
> > ranking seem a little irrelevant don't they?
> > Glenn McGowan
> > Principal cornet
> > Kew Band
> > mcgowan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > --
> > njh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx For information about this list, including ho=
w
to
> > unsubscribe or receive the list in digest form, mail a message of
'help' to
> > listserver@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --
> njh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx For information about this list, including how
to
> unsubscribe or receive the list in digest form, mail a message of 'help=
'
to
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