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Re: Aw jees Norm...

Oh dear, talking about which instruments are in which families and general
nomlenture (I'll let Bethan pick the spelling up there) again:


On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Adrian Drover wrote:

> On 16 Jun, Adrian J. Raven <aj.raven@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> > What the hell is this "single Bb tuba"? 
> > I thought the Euphonium was a "single Bb" and what many people refer to
> > as a "single B" was just a 3/4 size BBb. 
> > Single or double B refers to the pitch does it not? This has been a
> > misnomer for years.
> 
> > Any thoughts?
> 
> Yes Adrian, there is a lot of confusion regarding the pitch of brass
> instruments.
> 
> The Wagner tubas were built in the same pitches as the french horns, ie,
> Bb and F. The Bb (or single B) is the same tube length as the euphonium
> and the F is the same length as the relatively modern F (symphonic) tuba
> (or euph when the 4th valve is pressed). I believe that modern Wagner
> tubas combine the two pitches in one instrument with the aid of a 4th
> valve, just the same as does the double horn in F and Bb, though I'm not
> sure what kind of system they use.

AFAIK, Wagner tuben are built as full double instruments, the tenors being
in Bb/F and the basses in F/C.  This makes sense, as they are played by
hornists.

> Still confused? Well if it's any consolation, even Wagner himself could
> not make up his mind what pitch he should write his tubas in. He
> apparently changed the transposition of both his tubas half way through
> his Ring Cycle, so the players had to learn two sets of fingering.
> 
> BBb (or double B) refers to the full size (contrabass) tuba. So the single
> Bb tuba that Alastair is refering to is actually the same length as the
> euph.

No, the "single" tuba was "one" tuba.

To clear up the confusion, Strauss' 'Don Quixote' and 'Heldenleben' (the
second of which I've played) are both scored for one tenor and one bass
tuba.  The bass tuba is a conventional instrument, Heldenleben needing a
few low Ebs.  The tenor tuba was originaly intended as a Wagner tuba, (a
very unusual step, they normally come in quartets.  Bonus points for
naming a piece with 2 tenor wagner tuba parts only) but Strauss disliked
the sound and substituted euphonium instead.  Heldenleben is low and needs
a 4th valve (down to Bb, up to C!) Quixote is more middle register, often
with the bass clarinet.

> There is similar confusion between the names that the Brits attach to
> their instruments and the labels used in parts of Europe and America. eg:

Sorry Adrian, but these are almost all wrong, only the tenor and baritone
horns are descended from the saxhorns.  The cornet, Flugelhorn, saxhorn
and tuba families are all distinct, though there has been some
interbreeding :)  In fact, I remember past posts from you pointing this
out!

> Sopranino saxhorn = Soprano Cornet
> Soprano saxhorn = (Bb) Cornet (or alto)
> Alto saxhorn = Tenor Horn
> Tenor saxhorn = Baritone
> Baritone saxhorn = Euphonium = Tenor Tuba (same pitch as the Baritone)
> Bass Saxhorn = Eb Bass
> Contrabass Saxhorn = BBb Bass
> 
> If you more confused now than you were before, I'm not at all surprised.
> I don't understand how a 3/4 size BBb can still be pitched in Bb, unless
> this refers to the bore size rather than tube length.

This is a common sort of question on the TUBAEUPH list, as I'm sure Phil
Green will testify.  The terminology does make sense, but is based on bore
size and completely irrelevant of fundamental pitch.  A BBb tuba, a Bb
tuba, a euphonium, a piccolo trumpet, they're all pitched in Bb. 

> Adrian ;-)

-- 
  Alastair Wheeler	 
  Euphonium & Trombone				   Fundamental Brass
  Bass Trombone				  City of Oxford Brass Band
  alastair@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx       http://www.new.ox.ac.uk/~alastair
  "I am following my fish"


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