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Re: alternative instrument for a horn player

Very interesting to read such informed and interesting comments from two
such experienced, skilled, interesting and commercial arrangers and
composers as Mark Freeh and Adrian Drover. I've known Mark for 30 years
and he has consistently tried to expand the brass band envelope while
doing interesting things with the music that remain playable. Anyone
remember "Manhattan Brass?" Adrian I do not know but clearly he knows
his brass bands and his big bands.
The question remains as to whether brass bands want to play for
themselves or develop further colours to add to their palette and
possibly open up the band to a wider audience. Lollipops and test pieces
are not the whole answer for sure. 
Having said that, these are the things the brass band does best at the
moment.
Hannaford Street Silver Band in Toronto has done much to try to expand
the repertoire but their biggest reaction always comes from show pieces.
They have also worked for 15 years to develop an audience and now have a
highly successful subscription series just like "real" musical groups.
However they would be better if they would get away from guest
conductors and get a permanent conductor with brass band experience.
How did we get to Hannaford from arranging? Time to stop this stream of
consciousness.
Dave Buckley.

 Adrian Drover wrote:
> 
> On 23 Apr, <brassman@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> > All sections of a brass band  are made up in "fours" except for the
> > trombones.....
> 
> > (4) tubas
> 
> All play in unison, or octaves or 5ths.
> 
> > (2) euphs& (2) Bar.
> 
> Not a matched section.
> 
> > flugel & (3) horns
> 
> Not a matched section, but it can work, just as well as flugel and 3 troms.
> 
> > (4) solo cornets
> 
> Usually written in unison or octaves, very rarely in 4 part voicings.
> 
> > (4) back row cornets (2) 2nds & (2) 3rds.
> 
> Most often in 2 parts, never 4. For a 4 part voicing it is usual to use
> all solos, 2nds and 3rds, 2 players on each part. Back row are best
> dovetailed with front row.
> 
> > The Sop and Rep are there for range, strength, support and colour.
> 
> The Sop is certainly useful in a solo capacity, or to support the top
> cornets, or extend the range a further octave.
> 
> I have however never understood the need for a Repiano. It has no more
> range than the other 8 players. It has no different colour to the other 8.
> As a solo instrument, it can only do what one of the other 8 might do just
> as well. It's only useful function is to double up the melody, which the
> soprano does anyway, or counterpoint line.
> 
> This position could easily be sacrificed for a 2nd flugelhorn. This would
> create another quartet of matched instruments in the band (2 flugels and 2
> euphs).
> 
> > So one more trombone would be ideal.
> 
> I agree.
> 
> >  As far as adding flugels, there is no reason why the back row cornets
> > couldn't double on flugels which would enhance the tone colour of the
> > brass band. It would create a beautiful texture especially with 4
> > flugels in unison, and 5... if you include the regular flugel.
> 
> Again, I agree, and I might add that flugels voiced in 4 parts is a really
> wonderful sound too.
> 
> > Brass bands still haven't utilized mutes to their best advantage.  Many
> > brass band players still don't know how to blow through mutes.
> 
> Many brass bands don't have the mutes that arrangers would like to use.
> Cups, harmons, plungers and buckets for cornets; cups, plungers and
> buckets for trombones.
> 
> > There is no place for french horns... They don't blend with the flugel
> > as a section and can be over bearing.
> 
> They don't need to blend with the flugel. The whole point of using F horns
> would be to add contrast, something that the brass band sorely lacks. The
> symphony orchestra has more contrast than any other kind of band, but
> there is no problem with balance in a well rehearsed orchestra. Even
> instruments like oboe and bassoon, which are almost impossible to blend
> with anything else find a place in the ensemble, and they are great as
> solo instruments. The F horns blend so well that they can combine with any
> other section of the orchestra.
> 
> > I have written several things for The River City Brass Band (all pros)
> > and there is always a balance problem.  If you want to use trumpets and
> > french horns then just start a brass ensemble. If you want to add bass
> > and guitar then start a big band.
> 
> In my experience as a writer, I have found than many brass bands wish to
> achieve a big band sound. This could be achieved much more successfully
> with a four trombone team and rhythm bass. Admittedly, you can stick a
> baritone horn (or 2) on the 3rd part (or 2nd and 4th parts) to make a
> quasi trombone section, but it's not as successful as the real thing. And
> there isn't a tuba player alive that can get an authentic feel on a
> pizzicato bass part. It just ain't built that way.
> 
> > Why tamper with an already good (and established) sound.  And if you
> > want to hear a standard brass band play jazz at it's best, then listen
> > to Brass Band of Battle Creek.... Before you go changing things....
> > learn  how to produce the sound and play the concept..... and learn to
> > "swing".  Brass Band of Battle Creek is the "proof of the pudding" that
> > it can be done. In the U.K., the only band I have heard that comes close
> > to the proper concept has been Grimethorpe.
> 
> Yes, Grimethorpe is one of the bands that I have written for in big band
> style and they do it very well.
> 
> > And besides, publishers of brass band music will never ever change. No
> > money in it for them. I have never come out of a fantastic concert after
> > hearing Black Dyke or any other good band and said ... Gee... I wish
> > there were two flugels or 4 trombones.....
> 
> I can't argue with that.
> 
> > There is an expression in America... "If it aint broke, don't fix it"
> 
> > Mark Freeh (New York City)
> 
> Cheers Mark. It's been a fun argument (or should I say discussion)?
> 
> Adrian
> 
> --
>   ____    _ _
>  /    \ _| (_)___   _____ ADRIAN DROVER
> |  ()  / _ | / _ \_( ___/ INNOVATIVE ORCHESTRAL SERVICES
> |__/\__\___|_\___/____)   http://www.gemscore.demon.co.uk/
> Business:  adios@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Personal: adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  (Glasgow, Scotland)
> 
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