The Brass Band Forum

Hello all.

I am currently researching a project on gender issues related to brass bands for my muisc degree and I wondered if anyone would like to share their views.

I would like to know what you think about women members of brass bands - do you think there are equal numbers of men and women players at the moment? Was this always the case etc.? Do you think women are encouraged or discouraged (or neither) from joining bands? Does this vary according to what section the band belongs to? Do you know of any female conductors - do you think they're effective? I'd welcome any information/opinions pertaining to women in brass bands.

Thank you very much for yor time!!
Rachael.

Depending What areas the bands are in depend on the amount of women that are in the Bands. In Mount Charles there seems more men than women. In most bands I have played in it has been the same.
However, it does not mean that men are better players than women, although there are more famous male brass musicians.
If you look at Brassed Off, for instance. The band is all men. This was due to many bands being 'Coal related', and only men worked in the mines, hence only men and Colliery bands.
If you also look on the history of the Man and Woman reltionship, Women were expected to stay at home and men could go out. It is only the 70's onwards where women started rebelling against this home imprisonment.

Therefore, it seems that there are more male numbers than female.

My advice is too look at brass band website and especially the players pages to see how many women players there are.

If you follow this link there are the complete Brass Band Listings of websites in the UK, that should help:
http://www.harrogate.co.uk/harrogate-band/link01.htm

Try some of these bands:
Black Dyke (Championship)
Grimethorpe Colliery (Championship)


Hope this has been of some assisstance.

Best Wishes

Tom's right, there are currently less female members in the band than male, however this is only fairly recently the case with Bianca taking a break and Helen going on maternity leave. Until the last couple years the band have in fact been fairly equally represented by both genders - when we took part in the stage version of Brassed Off they commented on this as it caused problems for "Gloria" with regards to not being welcomed since she was female.

However, I do agree with Tom in that there is an increasing number of females within the brass band movement - particularly at the top level (although this may be more due to the fact you can't get as much funding if you are seen to discriminate on the grounds of gender). I know someone from one of the two remaining all male bands in the country has recently admitted they have considered and are considering accepting female players, and have admitted it is inevitable.

Basic sociology shows that male and female roles are gradually becoming more even in every aspect of life - the home/family, the workplace, and also in social circles.

At the moment, having been with Mount Charles as a female player myself for over 8years, I can quite honestly say that I've noticed that at Championship level most bands now have their "token" female. I also notice through teaching locally (and yes, that includes being a female conductor on occasion) the lower section bands tend to have more female players than those of higher sections. The normal conductor for the fourth section band where I spend a lot of time is in fact female, and certainly just over half of the players are female.

If studying this for my sociology dissertation as I did actually consider, I would suggest as my hypothesis that there is a correlation between the ration of female-male players and the level at which a band plays. The reasons behind this (aside tradition), however, would be a little harder to determine.

P.S. I should have mentioned that over time I have noticed more female faces at contests (e.g. the Masters and Spennymoor), not just said that most bands now appear to have their "token" female. It no longer feels quite so male dominated in the pub after you've played as it did years ago (and not forgetting that Fairey and Dyke also have female players).

Who knows, maybe just like with the ration of male-female university students, the ladies will gradually overtake the gents within brass bands.

I once read a very interesting book that suggested women don't actually need men to have children... All they need is a particular chemical reaction which can be created in a lab by taking the egg of a donor and breaking it down and inserting it into another egg to cause the reaction required to create an embryo.

Therefore all babies would be female, no men would be required (lets face it ladies, there's Ann Summers) and we could perhaps visit the guys in the zoo where they belong on weekends... If that theory could be proved reality, men wouldn't be needed for reproduction and would therefore have no real purpose... Just an interesting thought upon which I feel I have digressed a little too far.

Thanks v. much for the information!! You've both been a great help
And now to write it up....

We could also perhaps investigate the North South divide... My band only bothered to go to Whit Friday once, we were referred to in our hearing as "bloody southerners" and haven't bothered with the expense since.

Don't forget to contact http://www.trinitygirlsbrassband.co.uk/, to see the other side of the sexism story...

in australia, there are equal men and women. our conductor, is a woman, who is one of our bands founding members.

i know that in england there is very few female players, but here there is little or no diffreence

I disagree that in the UK there ARE very few female players. A lot of the lower section bands in the South West area for example are largely made up of women, and when I joined Mount Charles it was pretty much an even split between males and females.

There seems to be less female players in the Northern bands that we play against, but on considering that until recent years a number of those bands in our section refused to have women in at all, I think that the Northern bands are probably similar to those in the South in that the lower sections have a more concentrated female population.

Obviously I have no evidence to support that, but with society gradually accepting that women are equals in all aspects of life (sociological studies prove this) then I think that gradually the gender divide in banding will close. Already in the last few years Dyke and Fairey have finally accepted they need to move forward and have accepted female players - and a few little birds have been whispering that maybe one of the 2 remaining all-male bands is perhaps considering caving in (and no, that wasn't from the obvious source most people will link to me and assume, it was entirely separate).

I trust that you didn't miss your band's claim to fame on this week's "Have I Got News For You?"

I missed it, but I believe it wasn't exactly highlighting any of our achievements. I guess any publicity is good publicity though. They could have at least mentioned the druid festival we played for in the middle of the night at a deserted mine to celebrate the eclipse. Much more interesting.

Don't encourage me into a discussion on politics - my views on royalty are very Cornish (in that we never signed over our sovereignty unlike Scotland and Wales so strictly speaking we are further removed from the UK than any other part). England seems to think it owns us and gives titles it has no right to give. Duke and Duchess of Cornwall? My arse! Can I write that?

Im not sure why there are so few female players. Our band is very much male orientated, though there are a few female players most of them are married to bandsmen. Those who are not tend to leave when the get married.

I once saw a contest where a female conductor was wearing some strange costume which was quite skimpy for a themed program at a exobition type constest. Alot of people were more interested in what she wore rather than the playing, but it did make the constest more entertaining. I think they were beaten by the conductor who took a pocket cornet from his pocket and played a solo half way through.

Tiggs

[quote="traosb"]I disagree that in the UK there ARE very few female players. [/quote]

sorry mate, im an aussie, and we have never had anything like that. we have a heaps different history to you pommys, so might that have any thing to do with it you think. we never had any collery bands, cos' there wasnt and colleries, just gold miners, now gold mines.

Women in Brass Bands,

When did this happen and where ?


Anyway, yes....however etc etc....

Its a good thing, Women are a good thing...erm not 'thing' that sounds like a put down, I mean Women are Great!!!

Oh dear, Ill start again



Yes, ........Women

I find them nice to play with.........[Doh!] ...done it again

Its true that we seem to have a 'Token' Female or two in our bands but I am sure in this day and age that is not because they are the only ones privileged to get in or 'good enough' to make the grade or indeed pass any ritual ceromony to gain access..... To my knowlege women are as welcome to the majority of UK brass bands as any male.
We have also had several generations of kids of both sex learning to play brass instruments.... 20 year ago when I was a kid in the north east most towns had a junior band which appeared to have a 50/50 split between boys and girls..... both were welcome to the world or Brass Band's. We have had many generations of femails though the teaching system over the years.

I think the question that should be asked is 'Why have so many females droped out of brass musicianship' ?????

I have my theories......

My first theory is NO 1. Peer pressure....... It is one of the most uncool things for a young lady to do. (remember I diddn't say that, that is what is said) from a realistic perspective.... at 14/17 its not exactly rock and roll or the pony club is it.

Theory NO 2. Puberty .... boys gain greater physical stregnth and as a result gain better breath control due to greater lung volume. There are exceptions to every rule which this example also subscribes, More dedicated femails will gain as much control as less equivelent males which could again explain why we have less women in bands whilst also fortifying their unquestionable achievement, dedication and skill. .... This may also explain why we have less Super Quality female soloist's, They DO exist, im just offering a theory why there are less.

Musically I can see no reason why women would have any special powers that would allow them to play any better than a man..... I do however admire the ability top women soloist display from cornet players to euphoniums, little tricks that I have adopted myself such as swaying the upper body to extract as much air volume as possible during tricky passages.

Our band has several women musicians, however our junior band appears to have a 50/50 split, just like it was 20 year ago.....

I would like to see more women
I really would

Maybe it was butt ugly boys like me that turned all the teenage girls away from brass banding all those years ago!



Thats the answer! .....Limit the ammount of facially challenged boys (like me) offered a brass instrument ?!

I blame the parents.

Throughout my brass band career I have always looked up to various female band members, who were often the best in the band.

I originated in Saltash Town band where the best player in the band (and still is) is Tina Fulcher the 1st baritone. She has been playing for 25 years and has played with Championship section bands all over the country (mainly on Euph.) before settling down in a 4th section band (was 3rd but been delegated).

Also in Saltash, there is a fantastic principal (who left for a while, but is back now -so I hear) who has been head hunted by top section bands.

(Not all female members are great in Saltash though!!!!)

Now I'm in Mount Charles (6th months to the day- not quite tracey's 8 years of experience!!!!!) and both horns above me are women and are both outstanding players.

You need to look no further than YBS and Shoena Williams who is solo horn (I think) but any way there are alot of great musician s that are women. Gone are the days where it was just men.